Hello,
Today, lets read a critique of Demian by someone called "Hazzard"
After reading this, please respond to two perspectives that this person has, concerning the novel. Tell us if you agree or disagree and state the reason. Cite your quotations appropriately. Then respond to a classmate's comment on this.
On Friday we shall discuss Chapter 5 of the book.
Best,
Florence
PS: The image below was made with some vector program I was trying out, recently. I had you all in mind, though. It represents Confidence and Inspiration
:)
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38 comments:
I agree, this book has a lot to do with pubirty and homosexuality. "This book deals deeply with the sexual awaking of puberty. When I say that it deals “deeply” with the topic, I mean to say that it goes into as much depth as you can without discussing the physical act of sex, without making any reference to genitalia of any kind, without depicting any sexual relationships, and without using the word “sex” if it could be helped." I think Sinclair is sexualy attracted to Demian. It is hidden behind words that don't give the fact away that he depends emotionally on this older boy Demian. Sinclair talks abouthow we are different people outside of our home than inside of our homes. "I found the characters to be whining posers without much concern for community and a terrible habit of overstating the obvious. Yes, Sinclair, we’re different people at home and outside of the home, but why let it torture your brain and why let it torture mine?" Although it is a book, and Sinclair is a charectar he over exaggerates everything he says. He is kind of a pussy or like a mommas boy. Its almost as if he is sheltered and in his own little world.
Oohhhhhh, I agree with Mr. Hazzard.
I can't help but to feel an overwhelming sense of overratedness when I read this book. There are too many ways in which Sinclair describes, in pornographic detail, every aspect of his horrible, listless life. We don't care about the chug-a-lugging of your brain's failure train. So shut up.
And the whole Sinclair/Demian, and Sinclair/Creepy Organist relationships are the defenition of f'ked up. Sinclair is completley unable to do anything at all for himself, and thusly submerges himself into the mentality of whoever happens to be willing to listen to him at the time. This sort of shamless dependance is a trait I find realy, really, really annoying in people.
"Sinclair whines and mopes, over-analyzing his boring existence while slowly “learning” that he is a special breed of person."
Special Indeed. Never have i seen any book describe a character in these special ways. That might be a good thing or it might be bad. But in this case the sexuality is just overwhelming the way he is confused all the time and develops need for others.
"If you’re looking for a book to read because you want to have something to talk about that will make you sound smart, this is the book for you. "
I do not want to "sound smart" because that's just pretending. So i agree with his suggestion about the book. I want to relate with the books I read and this book is on the other side of the spectrum.
"You can always bob your head, smile a lot, and say, “that a good book.” "
Will DO. Yes sir.
I agree with denny about everything with sinclair. he is a loser who feels sorry for himself and the only thigns that makes him feel better is demain. Thats a little wierd if you ask me. I also am not a huge fan of this book, but maybe it will get better, who knows
1st perspective:
Demian is a book with many "what do you think" questions. Demian is mainly for people with critical thinking abilities. Although every person has critical thinking abilities, not everyone is capable of thinking when the details are lying out there. Accroding to Hazzard, "If you’re looking for a book to read because you want to have something to talk about that will make you sound smart, this is the book for you." I sort of disagree with Hazzard, because it does not take a genious to conclude that Sinclair is a homosexual individual. However coming up with a legit reason why he is gay, is where the "sound smart" part kicks in.
2nd Perspective:
Demian lacks modern-ness. In the world that we live in today, sex is the capital of the world. Everything on television, from reality shows, soap operas, music videos,to ads, contain sex-related details, a four year old could easily spot. Hazzard "was hoping that modern translations would pander to our animalistic needs and toss in a few “penis” remarks." I agree with Hazzard, Demian lacks modern-ness.
1.http://www.monkeysvsrobots.com/mvsrpm/literature_comments.php?id=26_0_8_0_C
i agree with what Hazzard says. i think that sinclair is whiny. at times the book has some interesting topics, over all i am not enjoying it. i think that in some way sinclair is interesting in demian. i agree with this statment saying that sinclair analyzes everything too much. i think he needs to lighten up. i think this book is kind of boring. i feel like it is over rated, and we are just told to read it because it is considered a classic.
The writer touched on the fact that he thought the book consisted of "homoerotic implications". I found that to be interesting because earlier in class we had a group discussion about whether or not we thought Sinclair to be gay and why. I just thought it was funny to hear someone else say it. What I also found to be interesting in the article was the writer dicussed how he thought the characters had no sense of community and how he thought finding the road was to ones self was bs. It seems like everything this guy has touched on we have either discussed in class or did some kind of work with it.
i agree with what everyone said.. i think that sinclair is gay.. not only gay but absolutly obsessed with demain.. and thats creepy
It's funny that I never would have thought I would agree with this man's interpretation of Sinclair. But when I actually read what he thinks of him, I know exactly what he is talking about. "He’s a rich, pampered prissy boy who has an education handed to him. He’s smart only in that he latches onto smart people. These smart people are super-intellectual pillars of spiritual perfection (Hazzard)." When I was reading the same thoughts came into my head about Sinclair being a spoiled little brat that was not satisfied with his life and wanted to be more of a rebel.
But I also disagree with a statement that this critic makes. "...over-analyzing his boring existence while slowly “learning” that he is a special breed of person (meaning that he doesn’t have to plan for the future, get a real job, or stop masturbating anytime soon) (Hazzard)." Sinclair is still young, and I think it's okay that he doesn't have a plan for the future. I'm in college, and I don't think I have a set plan for the future. It's not easy to plan what you're going to do for the next day let alone the next year.
Hannah is on point.
I didn;t want to be straight up but she got to the point and that's all there's to be said about this book and Sinclair.
Case Closed
In the critique by Hazzard about Demian, he states "This book deals deeply with the sexual awaking of puberty." This is true because in Demain, there was a scene where all the boys were thinking about Mrs. Jaggalt in a sexual way. "There seemed to be hidden sources of pleasure, at least for the older boys, of which I had not even dreamed." (Chapter 4, pg 62). He notices all these boys fantasizing about Mrs. Jaggalt and he doesn't really understand this feeling. He is at that stage of puberty where he gets confused about these feelings about sex. Although he doesn't mention the word sex, you can tell it is in that direction.
Hazzrd also states "...being on the road to oneself can be a great excuse to sit around not making an impact on anyone who’s not acting as smart as you are." This is true because the book goes on and on in the introduction about being an individual, and following your own path. They don't seem to realize that even if you do so, it doesn't you will be an impact on someone, or make a difference. Yeah, it is important for you to follow your own path in life, but make it meaningful. Sitting around could be your individual path, but who will remember you like that? Make your individual path worth something!
1) "Hazzard" sayin that "I found the characters to be whining posers without much concern for community and a terrible habit of overstating the obvious. Yes, Sinclair, we’re different people at home and outside of the home, but why let it torture your brain and why let it torture mine? " I believe he is making a really good point here. From the beginning of this book we see that how everyone not really innocen and Everyone is evil deep inside of them in sincalir's perspective. I believe this really absurd. He is just being paranoid and it really annoys the reader.
2) "Hazard" is also saying that "After re-reading the introduction, we hit on the interesting concept that every person is not fully himself or herself until they are dead. It’s the road we take to get there that is important, but like so many immature anti-Christian crap, the narrator’s critique of religious order gives us a clear illustration of what’s bad about the current system and no clearly designed alternative except the hope of being one of the select few who are different. I believe this is also an important point. In demian, the author really creates a bad image on religion. He is kind of explaining that every bad thing causing because of religion. I think this is a very ridiculous perspective. I don't think that religion leds people to turn evil. People are responsible for what they are doing in this life, not religion.
I think Fuad's second comment is interesting. I find it kind of refreshing that the word "sex" is not used. In everything that I read or watch, there is some form of sexuality incorporated even if it's not necessary.
I agree with Denny. This book is totally overrated. And Sinclair does seem like tghe type who has a dependency on everything and everyone around. It's like Hazzard says Sinclair poses as some one who is intellectually smart but in all reality he latches on to real smart intellectuals so he turn may appear to be amongst them. He's bascially fakin it to make it.
this book is good for the most part, but it could b a bit more suspenseful other than the thrill edge of your seat entertainment of the stages of puberty
I agree with Fuad. It doesn't take a genius to figure out he is gay. It is basically jumping out at you, but the hard part, as Fuad said, is trying to find a ligit reason.
i think this book is good for the most part, but I think it could be a bit more suspenseful other than the thrilling edge of your seat entertainment of the stages of puberty
i think this book is good for the most part, but I think it could be a bit more suspenseful other than the thrilling edge of your seat entertainment of the stages of puberty
i agree with denny that this book is really annoying reader. Its just overrated and talks about a paranoid kid who has psychological problems. I don't think it's interesting at all
I also agree with Mr. Hazzard. What peopel don't realize is that you can never set your morals and guides before hand. Like Mr. Hazzard said "every person is not fully himself or herself until they are dead. It’s the road we take to get there that is important". I might have a set of morals today that might change tomorow because of events and decisions that happen around me. I may experience something today that will change me for who I am tomorow.
Emil Sinclair is all about finding who he really is by following philospies taught by philosiphers such as Nietzche, but like Mr. Hazzard said, you will nly know who you truly are after you die.
[[Responding to Fuad C]]I agree with what Fuad has to say when he speaks of "Demian lacking moderness". I think what he really meant was "SINCLAIR" not DEMIAN) lacks moderness. But it's ture. Demian seems like everything is forbidden. Open up, and just be yourself. Don't try to predict who you are or are trying to become!
Wow, I agree with "Hazzard", when he states
"Throughout the book, Sinclair whines and mopes, over-analyzing his boring existence while slowly “learning” that he is a special breed of person (meaning that he doesn’t have to plan for the future, get a real job, or stop masturbating anytime soon)."
Reading the book, you are overwhelmed with his description and his sad story, where too much isn't a good thing. It is good to have his character exaggerated but not to the point, where okay thats enough about him.
Sinclair is a rich white boy and isn't smart at all just latches onto smart people.
That since his parents just bought his way through to get into private school, that he has no real knowledge and that as it said he has everything handed to him. The only reason he's in that school so his parents can say oh look at my boy in this persitge school, and to also look good on a plaque what school he graduated from.
Hazzard says that the book is full of whining posers. I think that the book does overstate the obvious, and Sinclair keeps whining on about his life. He keeps complaining that he has a boring and lonely life. Yeah, people are different behaved inside of their home and outside of their home but that's just how things are. Why should he stress over it so much? And about the sexuality, I agree with alot of the people in class and also think he gay. If he keeps thinking of Demian in that kind of a way there is obviously something wierd about that.
One perspective that the author of this piece has is that all the characters of the book are whining posers and that they overstate the obvious. I agree with what the author is saying because Sinclair over exaggerates on everything. Like the way he over exaggerated the Demian’s features. Another perspective of this author’s that I agree with is the fact that this book “deals deeply with the sexual awakening of Puberty.” Although they are not direct in stating this you can infer this from the way Sinclair talks about Demian and the girl that he supposedly fell in love with. One quote from the book that I think contributes to the fact that this book is mostly about a young boy going through puberty is “Suddenly, a new image had risen up before me, a lofty and cherished image. And no need, no urge was as deep or as fervent within me as the craving to worship and admire. I gave her the name Beatrice.”
i agree with erasmo that a set of morals today that might change tomorow because of events and decisions that happen around me. since i think we control our fate and how we choose to live and that if we keep with our morals we can keep true to our self
So I think that this guy is a little bit shallow, he only sees what's on the surface and categorizes Sinclair into an easy stereotype. He doesn't see that the character is not only one demensional, but has many different sides. He says, "He’s a rich, pampered prissy boy who has an education handed to him." I agree with this, but it is only one part of Sinclair. He may be a rich boy who has everything handed to him, but as the book goes on and he learns about the dark world around him, he grows out of that. The author of the critique, it is clear, doesn't have any sympathy for the wealthy college kid, he writes Emil off as a whinny bumbler but doesn't see that the only world that Emil knew was the rich, comfortable one, and his journey into the dark realm was difficult. He could have easily turned around and decided to be ignorant just like his fellow classmates, but he didn't, he stayed and through the help of Demian, he began to understand the reality of the world.
The author of the review also pointed out that the road Sinclair took was a somewhat selfish individual path. He thinks that Emil thinks he is better and above everyone. He says, "We see these 'special' people think real hard and not do crap except have premonitions and talk about a great future." This is one of the only things that bother me in the book, maybe it was Emil's upbringing, or maybe he saw Demian as his and only his, but I found Emil to be a bit selfish with his coming of age. He felt pity only on himeself and saw the other boys as dumber or more ignorant than he. Maybe he was supposed to be on this path alone, since I haven't finished the book maybe he comes to the understanding that he cannot only think of himself. But at least now, I agree with the reviewer, Emil holds his ideas in like a little boy who doesn't want to share and gives off a little bit of arrogance while he sits around with his more superior friends be it Demian or Pistorious.
Demian is a book that you really have to get into to like ti and even if you get into there's possiblity you still won't like it. I can't really speak on the book as a whole because I've only read a few hacpters. All I've gotten from the book so far is that Sinclair is a young boy who just hit puberty and he's bi-curious. Obviously, he's a religious child as far as good and evil goes and but he's not sure what to do with these homosexual feelings. I've yet to read him talking about girls or wanting to look at girls, so here is where his gay emotions reveal themselves. I agree with the author when he sayd that Sinclair "over-analyzing his boring existence while slowly “learning” that he is a special breed of person (meaning that he doesn’t have to plan for the future, get a real job, or stop masturbating anytime soon)." I guess if the book is suppose to be abouit finding yourself then he's taking his sweet time. I think because of all the other crap I've got going on I might be one of those people the author spoke on. "...want to have something to talk about that will make you sound smart..." Hopefully the bok will get so interesting because at this point I'm tired of hearing him talking about "problems" that he has and going on and on about his woes that are even realistically important.
i agree with this review. his referral to how demian has many sexual overtones is how i saw it as well. "This book deals deeply with the sexual awaking of puberty. When I say that it deals “deeply” with the topic, I mean to say that it goes into as much depth as you can without discussing the physical act of sex, without making any reference to genitalia of any kind, without depicting any sexual relationships, and without using the word “sex” if it could be helped. This is surely a sign of the times, but I was hoping that modern translations would pander to our animalistic needs and toss in a few “penis” remarks, just for good measure. No such luck. "
i like the explaniation of how he percieves the kids that tell him it's a good book. he seems very annoyed however with everything. the book, people who like the book, and herman hesse. but i found his annoyance to be comical because he get a little to worked up about the whole thing
I agree with Erasmo too. Everything continues to change with time. Nothing stays the same. Different events and situations change things as time goes by.
I agree with zach 100% all this book has been about from the beggining up to this point is the fact that a boy is growing up and going through puberty. He's questiong his religion, hes curious about Demain, he claims to have fallen in love with a girl. In reality hes just a confused boy who's trying to find out who he really is.
I agree with Seema's comment and I do think he overobesses. He needs to just tell Demain how he feels and maybe something will go on from there. It's obvious that Demian is a strnage young man himself, so maybe he'll be up for a little homosexual exploration. Seema also commnented people acting differently outside from the way they act at home, which is completely true. Some people can't do the things they do outside at home.
I agree with waht everyone said. Hazzard made some interesting points, and many of those from what peopel said involve Sinclair's sexuality. The class thought that Sinclair was gay and in "love" with Demian. Hazzard thought the same thing. I found that quiet interesting. Sinclair is gay, and is in need of serious physical, mental, and emotionaly help.
I think Erasmo makes a good point, I think that what someone can think of as true today may be totally false tomorrow. Our ideas and ways of being change from day to day, right up until we die. We can't go through life with a set of morals we made when we were little, our morals are always changing to our own beliefs and no one else's.
I think Erasmo makes a good point, I think that what someone can think of as true today may be totally false tomorrow. Our ideas and ways of being change from day to day, right up until we die. We can't go through life with a set of morals we made when we were little, our morals are always changing to our own beliefs and no one else's.
I think this book has a lot of moral and imoral values depending on how each individual views the characters. Especially with Sinclair I think that he is very open-minded to facing the real word and comprehending with its concepts. I beleive that in order to read this book the reader must have enough maturity and understanding to grasp the message of the book. This book is in fact very explicit especially to the young mind! Hazzard states This book deals deeply with the sexual awaking of puberty. When I say that it deals “deeply” with the topic, I mean to say that it goes into as much depth as you can without discussing the physical act of sex, without making any reference to genitalia of any kind, without depicting any sexual relationships, and without using the word “sex” if it could be helped. This is surely a sign of the times, but I was hoping that modern translations would pander to our animalistic needs and toss in a few “penis” remarks, just for good measure. Showing this book has a lot of surprises. But I very well agree with Sinclair in his writing regarding the book. I also found this quote to be interesting And that’s probably why certain groups of intellectuals love them, because being on the road to oneself can be a great excuse to sit around not making an impact on anyone who’s not acting as smart as you are.
I don't like the author. I feel like his point of view on the book is totally closed minded. I personally really like the book. While he is whining about going to the "dark side", it makes you think about how much a lifestyle can change you.
"I found the characters to be whining posers without much concern for community and a terrible habit of overstating the obvious. Yes, Sinclair, we’re different people at home and outside of the home, but why let it torture your brain and why let it torture mine? As Sinclair bumbles from one hopeless obsession to another, we follow a retelling of his life from his school days getting bullied around to his later days of just bumming around. And really, I would have given this kid an Indian burn that would leave a red mark well into his teens. He’s a rich, pampered prissy boy who has an education handed to him. He’s smart only in that he latches onto smart people. These smart people are super-intellectual pillars of spiritual perfection. Just the type of people who’d say, “duh, you just don’t get it!” and not provide any serious answers."
I feel like "hazzard" was quick to criticize the book without really thinking about what Hesse wants people to get out of the book. I hope people agree! All I am reading is people totally agreeing with "hazzard" and how this book basically sucks. I like it. But "hazzard" gives me the idea that he comes from the background that he has had alot of people praising the book, and when he started it, he had expectations for how good the book was.
I agree with Andrea. It is refreshing not to hear/see the word sex uned in a book that feels like it is centered on that topic. With everything on TV based on sex/sexuality, it is nice to get away from that.
I am really impressed with the depth (really!) and honesty of your comments. We'll talk about this 'Hazzard' some more on Friday.
Much respect!
Florence
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